Who is Karen?
Karen Green is a marketing expert who has a passion for helping people sell their ideas, products, and services. She firmly believes in the principles of virology theory and how they can be applied to any sales situation, whether it's an investor pitch, business presentation, or job interview. With a focus on niche marketing, Karen helps her clients achieve their goals and reach their target audience. Her expertise extends to a wide range of industries, making her a valuable asset to anyone looking to sell more effectively.
Key Takeaways
00:00 Broad sales principles apply to various situations.
04:54 Tailoring sales approach to individual buyer preferences.
09:29 In 30 seconds, tailoring emails makes difference.
11:57 Logic and biology in business development book.
14:47 Book by former FBI negotiator with storytelling.
Valuable Free Resource or Action
Copy of Karen’s book by dropping her an email at karen@buyerology.co.uk
A video version of this podcast is also at
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Transcript
Note, this was transcribed using a transcription software and may not reflect the exact words used in the podcast)
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
buying mindset, sales director, buyer's mindset, pricing, corporate buyers, facts and figures, virology model, human interaction, selling, personality profiling, AI, communication, prospecting, negotiation, case studies, coaching, selling toothpaste, retail, sales growth, buyer's profile, business development, webinar, Jeff Walker, B2B sales strategies, human approach, Harvard Business Review, decision making, influencing, marketing, entrepreneurship
SPEAKERS
Karen Green, Stuart Webb
Stuart Webb [00:00:21]:
Hi, and welcome back to It's Not Rocket Science, 5 questions over coffee. This is a great opportunity for me to sit and chat, with somebody I'm really looking forward to a discussion with. And I do have a cup of coffee, so therefore, good opportunity for me to sit back, let her do the talking, and I'll do the coffee drinking. And today, I'm talking to Karen Green who was a buyer, with with Tesco. Five I got that right, Karen? Yes.
Stuart Webb [00:00:53]:
And then you moved into, the, the supply side where you were a sales director, and now you are an expert consultant and speaker helping us all understand the buyer's mindset and how to go about doing things like, well, pricing and buying and things like that. So, Karen, I'm really looking forward to the conversation. Welcome to it's not rocket science, 5 questions over coffee.
Karen Green [00:01:17]:
Thank you for having me. I'm looking forward to it.
Stuart Webb [00:01:20]:
Terrific. Webb, okay. I guess the first thing we have to sort of dive into is is who is what is who is the person you're trying to help? What is it that we're all misunderstanding about buying that you're trying to
Karen Green [00:01:31]:
help us to understand? So on a on a broader scale, because, you know, whenever you talk to marketers, they say you should niche it down, niche it down. But on a broader scale, anybody who is trying to sell something, and you could be selling an idea to somebody, you could be selling a product or a service, or selling your business. So if you're doing an investor pitch, or even if you're trying to sell yourself for an interview, the principles behind behind the virology theory work for for any of those. So, much as, you know, my target audience is obviously, for my clients is more narrow than that, but this can work for any anybody really who wants to to sell more and sell better.
Stuart Webb [00:02:23]:
And what is it those people have done before you try and help them that that have made Webb they've made mistakes in that? Is is it just is it just not understanding the process or is it more than that?
Karen Green [00:02:37]:
It's more than that. And I and I found this statistic, and I asked lots of people. So I'll ask you the the the the number. So according
Karen Green [00:02:49]:
According to Harvard Business Review, what percentage of business to business, because that's really what I work in, business to business, corporate buyers, make the decision based on fact?
Stuart Webb [00:03:03]:
Yeah. So I'm going to have to say according to Harvard Business Review, and and I haven't read this article, but I would imagine it is a very, very low percentage. And I would imagine most people going into a buying situation think that that person buying is basing on all of the facts. And I'd imagine it's basically on whether or not you smiled or did something to make them feel good or treated them like a human or something like that.
Karen Green [00:03:29]:
You're absolutely right. So they say about 5% of
Stuart Webb [00:03:33]:
decisions That doesn't surprise me, I'm afraid. Based
Karen Green [00:03:36]:
on fact. And and that's the biggest mistake that I think I probably was making from, from day 1 of being a salesperson because, my personality is is quite fact based. I'm quite interested in in sales growth and numbers. So I would do all my research, and I'd look at the company, and I'd look at, their values and their mission and their statistics and the market share, and I would know that relatively inside out. And if I didn't, I'd usually have somebody with me who did, like a category manager. And when I was sort of putting together the the basis for my model, the virology model, I actually realized that that's only 1 third of of the of the piece. The the main part of it is, as we say, that that buyers are human. And therefore, what you've got to do is spend more time researching the person you're selling to as a human being than actually the corporation.
Karen Green [00:04:42]:
And then the 3rd pillar, which I think is quite interesting, and it's harder to research, is what is that human's interaction with the company they're working for?
Karen Green [00:04:54]:
So for example, I do a lot of work with food and drink companies selling into UK retail because that's obviously my my background. And you might get a buyer who's been there a long time, seen it all before, doesn't really wanna rock the boat, and therefore, you know, you have to think about, well, they're not looking for promotion, they're gonna be looking just to keep going. They've seen it all before. Or you might have somebody actually who's who's super ambitious, wants to change the world, quite happy to go and do things differently, and that can make quite a difference between the way you, you tailor things. So that's where you kind of if you if you'd look at all three pillars, you will have a better chance. And it means that you can take your your basic sales message, whatever that is, and and tailor it according to the person. And that's and that's the skill, that's the basis for the book, and that's the basis for what I work with clients on to to make to make the difference.
Stuart Webb [00:06:10]:
That's that's interesting. I think it's it's very reminiscent. Of my experience when I was, first first out of, what I did and and and entered a world where I was being taught to be a manager briefly before I started sort of taking taking you know, doing doing things with my own companies. But the one thing that I can remember a a manager mentor of mine saying was when I sort of provided somebody with some feedback, I was doing it based upon my understanding of something, which was all about, as you said, numbers. And and this person looked at me and said, how did they take it? And I said, well, I didn't understand. You didn't seem to care about that. He said, no. You have to tailor your message to what they care about, not what you care about.
Stuart Webb [00:06:54]:
And it was such a I sat there and thought from, well, that sounds that sounds so so ridiculous. I mean, I was I was sort of, you know, late twenties. You know, I was I was one of those sort of, you know, sitting there knowing knowing everything and then thinking, well, why on earth is this person telling me something like that? Because that's clearly rubbish. And and it was absolutely the right advice because people don't wanna hear it based upon your understanding. They wanna hear it based upon their understanding, don't they? They're and and and as as communicators, the thing that we have to remember is that communication is what the listener does, not what we do. We can we can shout it from the rooftop, but if nobody's listening, we've communicated nothing.
Karen Green [00:07:35]:
It's true. And what's exciting, I think, now is the fact that the combination of having LinkedIn and having, AI, and there's there's a couple of AI, systems you can use. I use Humanix. There's also Crystal Knows, and there's a couple of others. You can go and analyze the buyer or the the person that you wanna sell to because it might not be a corporate buyer. It must might just be your boss, for example. And you can work out their personality based on and Humanix uses the the DISC profiling. So you can then say, well, actually, I mean, I'm a I'm a relatively strong red personality.
Karen Green [00:08:16]:
So, and I remember a bit like you when I was younger at at at Tesco, my boss sitting me down and saying, you know, you went and asked accounts for us. He said, talk me through. And I went, well, I took it up like you said, and I gave it to them. And I said, I need this. And he said, did you say good morning? And I went, might have done. Did you ask them how they were? And I'm like, well, why would I? Am I interested? I don't care. And he said, I think if you built the relationship a bit better, you might understand, you know, you might come better. And I was like, oh, okay.
Karen Green [00:08:48]:
Fine. But if you if you know your personality as well so I know that I'm high red. I'm gonna get to the point quite quickly. I'm it's not entirely true because I do have a bit of eye in me as well. So I am relatively interested in people, but I think that's probably come as I've got older. And if you know your shortcomings or your purse your chosen approach, and then you use something like Humanix, which really has changed the way I do, because I obviously work with a quite a large number of clients, so I do a lot of discovery calls. And I can go on to LinkedIn. I can profile them.
Karen Green [00:09:29]:
In 30 seconds, I've got fair idea what they're gonna be five, and it just it just gives it the edge. It really does make a huge difference, to to the way I approach things. I'm not as good as I should be, you know, in terms of tailoring my emails and tailoring this, that, and the other. And and I was, I was watching a, webinar last week actually by Humanex who were talking about how, you know, if you've got a mailing list, I use Hub Spot, and you've got, say, a 1000 people on it, you can segment it by, type and and and all that kind of thing. And and, yes, I probably would do better. And their their open click rates is amazing because they do tailor it specifically to to different types. But and I'm sure once AI gets a little bit better than it you just press a button and then it will do it for us. But at the moment, it's a little bit a little bit weird for me.
Karen Green [00:10:22]:
But
Stuart Webb [00:10:23]:
I'm I'm looking forward to the day that I, that that that on on on my behalf and AI buys everything I've already decided I want. Although at the moment, I've got a son that does that for me, and I just over things appearing, through the post because he just sits and orders stuff that he's decided that I want. Well, most of the stuff is for him is just my credit card. Anyway, so look. That takes me for the next to the next thing, and I think you've got a really brilliant free offer that, that we can we can all tap into to sort of learn some of this stuff. And and for this moment now, I'm going to show this ticket because I believe you have got a really valuable free offer, which I'm really excited about.
Karen Green [00:11:08]:
So so yes. I wrote, my this is my second book actually, Recipe for Success, which was aimed at at food companies. It's available on Amazon if if you are interested. But this is a broader book. This is around know your buyer, sell more, and and sell better. And the first third of the book does go into understanding the why. So, you know, understanding why why are people more likely to be human in a corporate decision making, situation than than driven by by facts and figures. And then it I get into the the disc profiling and different ways that you can actually work out who your who your customer is and and to think about the 3 3 pillars.
Karen Green [00:11:57]:
Because, you know, at the beginning, I was saying we tend to focus on that 3rd pillar about, well, the the logical bit. We still need the logic because if we don't have the logic, then the rest of it will will fall apart because we still you know, there there still needs to be that factual basis. And and then the final part of the book is thinking about, well, how do you go out and do all those different things to do within business development and sales, such as prospecting, sending the cold emails, having the meetings, closing the sale, getting repeats. All of that part is there, but but with the underpin of of how do you tailor it and how do you use biology to make difference. So that's that's the book. It is a it is available on Amazon, but, yes, if you drop me a line, I will arrange for and an address, actually. I'll need your address at the same
Stuart Webb [00:12:50]:
time.
Karen Green [00:12:51]:
So so
Stuart Webb [00:12:52]:
drop an drop a a request and an address to karen@buyerology, that's buyeroldoydot co.uk. And that will be winging its way to you, which is a fantastic free offer. I love it.
Karen Green [00:13:09]:
Yeah. Please please do. I'll get get the message out because I'm really I am genuinely very passionate about what I do, and I think, the more people can who who get that understanding. Yeah. And as I say, you don't have to be an entrepreneur or in business for it to be useful. I mean, you know, some of some of the I don't know whether when toddlers actually get their their, personality. In fact, I should look that up because I've never thought about that. I've always thought, you know, if you're gonna sell something to a toddler, then that's probably and succeed.
Karen Green [00:13:43]:
Selling an idea to a toddler is is probably the hardest thing you'll ever do.
Stuart Webb [00:13:47]:
Well, I think is it is it it's not it's it's an old truism that we're all selling all the time over if you're what you're trying to do is persuade your your significant other to go out to the cinema. There's a there's a there's a there's an interaction of selling and buying interaction going on there, and it's just it's continuous, and we all ought to be better at it, I guess.
Karen Green [00:14:08]:
Yeah. Absolutely. It's it's it's
Stuart Webb [00:14:10]:
Makes make would make for happier relationships, I suspect, if we did actually do some of that. So, was there a particular book or course that actually sort of started you to to to think about? Obviously, other than the 2 books that you've mentioned that you wrote, but was there a particular book, of course, that actually, started you in this journey about understanding how buying be is such an important part of five.
Karen Green [00:14:34]:
So I would say the the best book I've ever read on this is Never Split the Difference. Five I've forgotten who wrote it now. Oh, god.
Stuart Webb [00:14:46]:
I didn't know.
Karen Green [00:14:47]:
I was looking on my shelf to see if I had it, and I think it's it's packed away because I've been it'll come back to me in a minute. But it's written by, he was an FBI negotiator, so he's not he wasn't at the time a commercial person. I mean, he does do a lot of training now. But it's a brilliant book because he does it there's a lot of storytelling in it, and he does talk about negotiating with with hostage situations and things like that. So it is quite interesting, but then he does get into, you know, how to negotiate a a pay five or how to negotiate, with your with your significant other as you're describing. It is a really good book, and it will come to minimum as to who's written it. It's it's a major major major major bestseller.
Stuart Webb [00:15:37]:
But that's, that's interesting, isn't it? Because once again, that you know, it's I I think we're discovering, you know, not that all buying situations are hostage taking situations, but I can understand what the the the the, the the links between those 2 because, obviously, what we've got is 2 people who are trying to reach some sort of an agreement, and I I guess Stuart the normal agreement is the price or whatever over you're gonna pay.
Karen Green [00:16:01]:
It's Chris Fox, by the way. I've just looked it up. Okay. But yeah. And and the point of the book, Over Split the Difference, I think is is a really good one because it's it is a technique that I've seen when I I was, Yeah. When I was working with Tesco. So they'll say, well, we want 50% margin. And you think, well, actually, I was only going in for, like, 30.
Karen Green [00:16:26]:
So if they say, let's split the difference, that's 40. But, actually, your toppest, toppest might be 38. So for them to go, let's split the difference because they've set this ridiculously high target figure to start with is is really poor. And and I actually do use it that thought process a lot where someone moves if someone says to me let's split the difference, I always say no. Just
Stuart Webb [00:16:52]:
Just to see what happens?
Karen Green [00:16:54]:
Chris said. Chris said say no.
Stuart Webb [00:16:58]:
How fantastic.
Karen Green [00:16:59]:
That's funny.
Stuart Webb [00:17:00]:
Get out of that situation?
Karen Green [00:17:04]:
Well, it's you then have to look at the reasons why you wouldn't split the difference. It's quite hard actually because some people think it's think it they're being generous. They go, well, should we you know, if you're buying a car and they'll say, well, should we split the difference? Or I've had clients I have one recently where someone was saying, well, can we split the difference? I Webb, oh, no. No. Because because because you're asking a map. You were asking too much to start with. But you gotta be careful because then that seems a bit rude.
Stuart Webb [00:17:33]:
I love it. Oh, we could talk for this on our list, but we better not. We better not because I think, 1, it would it would eliminate any, any reason for anybody to to try and get your book, and they definitely should get your book. So I'm going to ask you the final question, which is obviously, Five been asking questions and you've obviously beautifully answered them, but there must be a question that you wish I had answered and I haven't yet. So, Karen, what's the question that I should have asked you? And, obviously, you know the answer better than anyone else, so you better answer it for us as well.
Karen Green [00:18:05]:
What's what's the evidence that biology works? I think is
Stuart Webb [00:18:11]:
the best. That's a lovely question. I think it's a lovely question. Is there a good case study that you can bring us?
Karen Green [00:18:18]:
There's there's there's lots there's lots of of case studies I can bring. Certainly, over the last 2 or 3 years, I've had clients come along to me, and they've they've they've said, oh, this is my business and this is it, and I will turn on. I can remember one in particular. And I said, you don't really enjoy right running this business, do you? Because you really don't like selling because you're actually a real nice people person. And she went, you've only spoken to me for 5 minutes. How do you know that? And she got quite but she was very impressed. And we did end up working together for a very long time. And I did obviously explain to her afterwards.
Karen Green [00:19:00]:
I said, well, I've just profiled you, and and you're definite a very green person, and you like getting on with people. And and and therefore, you you know, to to sit across a buyer is gonna be really hard. So what you need is someone like me to protect you and go in and do it for you. And that's what I do actually with with a number of my clients. So so that kind of is an example of of the beginning of of of how it works. But, certainly, at the moment, I'm doing a lot more selling than I would normally do, on behalf of clients. I normally just coach, but I've got a couple of people who came to me and said, well, would you do it for me who are not born sellers? And, yeah, I'm having a lot of fun with it actually Stuart adapt, to the different personalities, and we're I'm off to see, Boots actually on Thursday sitting on the other side of the desk selling toothpaste. So it's gonna be quite interesting.
Stuart Webb [00:19:59]:
Fantastic. Fantastic. Karen, I mean, my immediate response my immediate response is I can't I can't believe, that you won't get 1,000,000 and 1,000,000 of requests for that book because, Well, if I
Karen Green [00:20:11]:
get 1,000,000 and 1,000,000, then we'll have to put we'll have to put, like, no more than 50 p 50 will be given away because, we don't want the repeat of, was it? Right.
Stuart Webb [00:20:21]:
There that is that is your that is your your challenge, people watching at the moment. And And if you're watching on replay, you may already be too late. Get that email to karen@birology, b u y erology.co.uk immediately to get your free copy of that book because I think, Karen, that is a brilliant message. I love what you've been telling us. I love the way that you're helping to peep get people. And I really appreciate you spending a few minutes with us, today.
Karen Green [00:20:54]:
Thank you for having me. I've really enjoyed it. It's been great.
Stuart Webb [00:20:56]:
Lovely. Now look. If you would like to get, an email from me letting you know about the wonderful people that are coming up on this podcast so you can watch five and get in before the offers disappear, send, go to this link, which is link.thecompleteapproach.c0.ukforward/newsletter. That puts you onto our letter list. We will be sending you an email, which gives you information about the upcoming webinars, the upcoming LinkedIn lives Webb you will hear wonderful people like Karen speak. And, Karen, I just wanna thank you once again for coming on and, spending a few minutes, certainly educating me, and I really appreciate it.
Karen Green [00:21:37]:
Thank you very much. Thank you. You've been great.
Five Questions Over Coffee with Karen Green (ep. 103)